Trail braking

[Vtec44]

From what I understand, it's the technique where you gradually let out the brake while leaning the bike, not braking while leaning the bike. For those who are using this technique, how the heck do you know when the front tire starts to lose grip?

[RC-5Juan]

Trail braking can also be used to correct while in a lean by using the rear brake. This is a practice for more experienced riders, as newer riders tend to grab too much brake, standing the bike up and running them into the wall, or over the cliff depending on where they are riding. A large line of n00bs usually will target fixate on this guy and follow him into whatever wall he hits or over whatever cliff he falls off of.

But I digress.


You know the front tire has lost its grip when it starts sliding.

[pantablo]

trail braking is on the front brake while leaned over in a turn.

Ideally, you're on the brakes before the turn, then as you tip it in you gently let off the brake incrementally, hopefully reaching no brakes at apex, then on the throttle. The idea is that you're always either on the throttle or on the brakes.

I do it. I dont know how to tell if youre at the tires limits except when it gives out. Hopefully you feel it slip and save it...:dunno

[pantablo]

oh yeah, John-thanks for the parts! Getting the bike together this week and pretty excited about it! I should be getting my helmet this week too...riding soon!

[Vtec44]

I do it. I dont know how to tell if youre at the tires limits except when it gives out. Hopefully you feel it slip and save it...:dunno

Yep, I'm the same and no I don't want to find out if it gives out without warning. I guess as John said, the front tire will slide and hopefully I'll have enough time to react, and react correctly.

From what I've been told, the idea is to load the front tire for traction and make the bike turn quicker. I just do it because I can brake deeper into a corner :dunno

[RC-5Juan]

oh yeah, John-thanks for the parts! Getting the bike together this week and pretty excited about it! I should be getting my helmet this week too...riding soon!

No prob. Lookin forward to seein you out riding again. Im sure its been a rough couple months for ya.

[pantablo]

I just do it because I can brake deeper into a corner :dunno

thats the reasoning I heard too-lets you run hotter into the turn so you can keep your speed up.

For me, the thing I always keep in mind is something I read in a magazine, written by a racer-you're either on the gas (hard) or on the brakes (hard)...nothing in between. I try to ride like that at the track. I've ome to realize, after talking to several suspension people, that when front suspension is set up as a compromise betweek track and street I end up bottoming out the forks under the hard, immediate and progressive application of brakes...I'll have to run separate suspension settings for track until I get my forks revalved...Pretty amazing considering how light I am.

[Marmalade Dad]

I was under the impression that trail braking meant incrementally letting up on the brakes while incrementally opening the throttle. This keeps the bike's handling "neutral" so that it isn't pitching forward too much under braking.

[old wanderer]

trail braking is on the front brake while leaned over in a turn.

Ideally, you're on the brakes before the turn, then as you tip it in you gently let off the brake incrementally, hopefully reaching no brakes at apex, then on the throttle. The idea is that you're always either on the throttle or on the brakes.

I do it. I dont know how to tell if youre at the tires limits except when it gives out. Hopefully you feel it slip and save it...:dunno

The "Perfect" corner I have found for this technique is turn 14 at Thunderhill..Here you are running down a straight and a bit of a hill, but you build up pretty good speed. (And cannot see the turn until you crest a rise, then say ohh sh......)

I start with a couple of downshifts (from 5th to 3rd) while braking agressivly setting up for the turn, then fade about 50% to 70% of the braking as I lean into the turn, by the apex I am back on the throttle looking for my set-up for turn 15.

Great technique, BUT several times I came out of turn 14 so fast then entered turn 15 I was unable to hold the line and just got a bit of dirt out on the front straight....:drool2 (got to remember not to do that).

Try a little bit and get used to the feel, just be smooth so you don't transfer weight front/back quickly

[ABearden]

I was under the impression that trail braking meant incrementally letting up on the brakes while incrementally opening the throttle. This keeps the bike's handling "neutral" so that it isn't pitching forward too much under braking.Pretty much. Trailbraking is staying on the brakes until just before the apex of the turn. While the initial brake should be hard (though not as hard as a non-trailbraked turn), you ease up on the brakes progressively as you begin applying throttle into the apex. You're on the brakes before you turn it in and stay on them (lightly) until you're on the gas for the apex. Keeps the bike planted, maintains a higher average speed through the turn, and lets you get higher exit speed in turns where you can trailbrake. I do it with the front brake, but if you can pull off using the rear brake, it'd lead to less understeer/front slide.

I've played with it, mostly to get around the bricks on literbikes at trackdays. Just have to watch for your tire "drifting." I've noticed on my bike that the tire will start a wider path than it should be on just before the tire completely loses traction. If that starts happening, it's off the brakes and on the throttle!

[The Sauce]

http://www.pimpmysig.com/data/539/medium/old_thread.jpg

[The Sauce]

She's put on a few pounds since then...:rolleyes

[McSteven (tm)]

and darker.

[pantablo]

For those who are using this technique, how the heck do you know when the front tire starts to lose grip?

here's how I know:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/pantablo/0001.jpg

:banana

[old wanderer]

Last month a Thunderhill, my buddy exceeded his front tire finding the limits of front wheel adhesion while trying to learn trail braking and wadded his bike up. Fortuanatly is was the last session, and he did not suffer the fate of Pantablo.....just some scuffed leathers and a dinged bike.

[fstrnr]

Yep, I'm the same and no I don't want to find out if it gives out without warning. I guess as John said, the front tire will slide and hopefully I'll have enough time to react, and react correctly.

From what I've been told, the idea is to load the front tire for traction and make the bike turn quicker. I just do it because I can brake deeper into a corner :dunno

I was told the same thing. He said that you can actually have more traction on the front tire in a corner by braking since you are sending the load of the bike to ther front as opposed to being on the gas (lifting the front) He says he does a combination of both to balance the traction - brakes and gas at the same time. I asked how far into the corner he was on the brakes and he said sometimes all the way to the apex.

I remember when I first started riding. All the information I got was 'brake before the turn and be on the gas in the turn'. Both are practical under the right conditions. I would never trail brake in the canyons or streets, only on the track. Trail braking is a feel thing, I think.