Ignition advancers

pat · 02-15-2004, 05:45 PM

does anyone have ingnition advancers installed in their bikes? if so how are they, and are they worth the money?

**ZMoe** · 02-15-2004, 05:47 PM

lttlfzrchck has one on her bike and likes it. My bike starts up fine so I don't need one. [img]graemlins/noteeth.gif[/img]

**Marmalade Dad** · 02-15-2004, 06:27 PM

So what exactly do these do? Provide a hotter spark? And what changes do you make to the bike in order to take full advantage of an ignition advancer?

**Marmalade Dad** · 02-17-2004, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marmalade Boy:
So what exactly do these do? Provide a hotter spark? And what changes do you make to the bike in order to take full advantage of an ignition advancer?

Anyone? [img]graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

**Jikser** · 02-17-2004, 09:25 PM

normally after-market advancers are set @ +4 degrees. why? i dunno!!!

i set my EMS @ +4 degrees on the fuel mapping...my last dynorun proved it to be effective. 132rwhp/81 ft/lbs and 1:12.34 f/a average

**Vtec44** · 02-17-2004, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JIKSER:
i set my EMS @ +4 degrees on the fuel mapping...my last dynorun proved it to be effective. 132rwhp/81 ft/lbs and 1:12.34 f/a average

Holy shit, you have almost 40hp more than my POS!!! [img]graemlins/eek.gif[/img]

Clownfish · 02-18-2004, 08:10 AM

[img]graemlins/poke.gif[/img]

Someone needs a BIGGER bike...

I can recommend a Honda CBR954RR, they are sooo sweet. [img]graemlins/boink.gif[/img]

**Vtec44** · 02-18-2004, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clownfish:
[img]graemlins/poke.gif[/img]

Someone needs a BIGGER bike...

I can recommend a Honda CBR954RR, they are sooo sweet. [img]graemlins/boink.gif[/img]

LOL I can barely handle ~90RWHP, no need to kill myself this early. Plus, it's always fun to be the underdog!!

pat · 02-19-2004, 11:22 AM

hey what does the +4 degree stand for? because the graves ignition advancer is adjustable up to 10 degrees

**RC-5Juan** · 02-19-2004, 12:09 PM

Spark is timed to fire before Top Dead Center because the mixture takes time to burn, and the timing is designed so that you get the most efficient burn of the charge. The earlier you fire the spark, before TDC (top dead center), the more time there is for the charge to burn before the exhaust valves open a little before BDC (bottom dead center). A longer burn time means more energy expended pushing the piston down.

Compression is at its maximum at zero degrees TDC, not earlier or later.

If you advance the timing too far, so that the spark fires before the charge is sufficiently compressed, it will not ignite and burn, rather it will explode or "pre-ignite", also called detonation. Pre-ignition causes the temperature to rise dramatically in the chamber, eventually melting the aluminum piston tops or other parts. Running higher octane fuel will allow earlier timing without pre-ignition.

Since the time required for the charge to burn is constant, you get a different percentage burned at different RPM, where there is more or less time available. Digital ignitions are programmed to change the amount of advance based on RPM and throttle opening, with the goal of a complete burn at any RPM and load. Aftermarket ignition/fuel computers allow you to change the curve. (Old-tech cars use vaccum and mechanical advance/retard units on the distributors to acheive the same goal)

Installing an advance will increase the static timing advance by around 4 degrees. This gives the intake charge a slightly longer amount of time to burn, which may marginally increase total power. More likely, it will increase efficiency at a certain RPM range, smoothing out the torque curve. You will probably have to commit to high octane fuel if you install one.

If you have a bike that will take a programmable ignition computer, you can give the bike a new ignition curve without changing hard parts. It costs more, but you can change the timing where its needed, rather than advance it across the board.

Basically, by advancing the ignition 4 degrees, you are causing the spark to light off 4 degrees (1 revolution=360 degrees) earlier. Its a good idea to have a professional tune this to avoid destroying the engine. Depending on the cost, it may not be worth the effort either. Lots of technical stuff...hope i didnt confuse anyone.

A better bet may be a Powercommander PC3R that allows you to tune the fuel map of the bike as well as the ignition.

02-15-2004, 05:45 PM	#1
pat Stunter wannabe Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: where i am from? a little town called none of your Posts: 55 Bike(s): I ride japanese	does anyone have ingnition advancers installed in their bikes? if so how are they, and are they worth the money? __________________ "Luck never gives; it only lends."

02-15-2004, 05:47 PM	#2
ZMoe WHAT Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 'dena Posts: 4,293 Bike(s): 4 of them Images: 768	lttlfzrchck has one on her bike and likes it. My bike starts up fine so I don't need one. [img]graemlins/noteeth.gif[/img] __________________ Great riding tips Vote for your ruler Pray to the jug Stop Veggie Cruelty *Sarcasm free of charge

02-15-2004, 06:27 PM	#3
Marmalade Dad Moderate Tater Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dog House Posts: 10,449 Bike(s): none Images: 27	So what exactly do these do? Provide a hotter spark? And what changes do you make to the bike in order to take full advantage of an ignition advancer? __________________ Terra Powersports

02-17-2004, 09:25 PM	#5
Jikser INVALID USER Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 90650 Posts: 2,139 Bike(s): Gone Fishin'..don't bother Images: 77	normally after-market advancers are set @ +4 degrees. why? i dunno!!! i set my EMS @ +4 degrees on the fuel mapping...my last dynorun proved it to be effective. 132rwhp/81 ft/lbs and 1:12.34 f/a average __________________ I don't ride.

02-19-2004, 11:22 AM	#9
pat Stunter wannabe Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: where i am from? a little town called none of your Posts: 55 Bike(s): I ride japanese	hey what does the +4 degree stand for? because the graves ignition advancer is adjustable up to 10 degrees __________________ "Luck never gives; it only lends."

02-18-2004, 08:10 AM	#7
Clownfish Frustrated Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Simi Valley Posts: 452 Bike(s): 2002 Honda CBR954RR s/b, 2003 Suzuki DR650 Dual sp	[img]graemlins/poke.gif[/img] Someone needs a BIGGER bike... I can recommend a Honda CBR954RR, they are sooo sweet. [img]graemlins/boink.gif[/img]

02-19-2004, 12:09 PM	#10
RC-5Juan On the Outside Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Redondo Bitch Posts: 4,015 Bike(s): 996,RC51,R1, CRF450SM, SXV550 (Little Jugs?),KX450 Images: 9	Spark is timed to fire before Top Dead Center because the mixture takes time to burn, and the timing is designed so that you get the most efficient burn of the charge. The earlier you fire the spark, before TDC (top dead center), the more time there is for the charge to burn before the exhaust valves open a little before BDC (bottom dead center). A longer burn time means more energy expended pushing the piston down. Compression is at its maximum at zero degrees TDC, not earlier or later. If you advance the timing too far, so that the spark fires before the charge is sufficiently compressed, it will not ignite and burn, rather it will explode or "pre-ignite", also called detonation. Pre-ignition causes the temperature to rise dramatically in the chamber, eventually melting the aluminum piston tops or other parts. Running higher octane fuel will allow earlier timing without pre-ignition. Since the time required for the charge to burn is constant, you get a different percentage burned at different RPM, where there is more or less time available. Digital ignitions are programmed to change the amount of advance based on RPM and throttle opening, with the goal of a complete burn at any RPM and load. Aftermarket ignition/fuel computers allow you to change the curve. (Old-tech cars use vaccum and mechanical advance/retard units on the distributors to acheive the same goal) Installing an advance will increase the static timing advance by around 4 degrees. This gives the intake charge a slightly longer amount of time to burn, which may marginally increase total power. More likely, it will increase efficiency at a certain RPM range, smoothing out the torque curve. You will probably have to commit to high octane fuel if you install one. If you have a bike that will take a programmable ignition computer, you can give the bike a new ignition curve without changing hard parts. It costs more, but you can change the timing where its needed, rather than advance it across the board. Basically, by advancing the ignition 4 degrees, you are causing the spark to light off 4 degrees (1 revolution=360 degrees) earlier. Its a good idea to have a professional tune this to avoid destroying the engine. Depending on the cost, it may not be worth the effort either. Lots of technical stuff...hope i didnt confuse anyone. A better bet may be a Powercommander PC3R that allows you to tune the fuel map of the bike as well as the ignition. __________________ My bikes don't make me cool, I make my bikes cool. A 'tard is 2 letters away from being "special". -Zmoe It's not what you ride, it's that you ride.

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